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Thread: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

  1. #1
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    Default B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    I came across this article when the term “Married Covers Program” came up on Bradington-Young’s website. So, now I’m wondering if it makes more sense to stick with Omnia which is ALL USA made. Or go with the B-Y married covers which are almost guaranteed to be made in China and the quality not quite up to the same par. I don’t want overly sanded or protected leather giving it a “vinyl” look. Jeez, they make it hard for consumers to figure this all out and still not break the bank. 🥴


    https://fineleatherfurniture.com/lea...cover-leathers

  2. #2
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    That article from Wellington House is not worth the digital paper irs printed on. It’s full of inaccuracies and flat out wrong. I will not pick it apart point by point, however. Be careful whom you believe. The correct information is already posted here on the forum in prior posts.

    Good luck in your search.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    Thank you, Duane. I had initially thought I was on B-Y’s website. Then I noticed it said Wellington House above. I’ll do a search here for Married Covers and leather from China, etc. I’m confused. The whole reason I’ve been looking at these higher end brands is because I wanted to stay AWAY from Chinese tanneries. I understand that most of the better companies import leather from Europe and Brazil, etc. My own city used to have a tannery back in the day. Wonderful place. I know there are far too many restrictions in the U.S. now. But, could that mean China’s aren’t as restrictive? I’m thinking of formaldehyde for one.

    Off to do my search.


    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    That article from Wellington House is not worth the digital paper irs printed on. It’s full of inaccuracies and flat out wrong. I will not pick it apart point by point, however. Be careful whom you believe. The correct information is already posted here on the forum in prior posts.

    Good luck in your search.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    I would suggest you read through this entire thread, if you do them you will know more than 95% of all furniture store salespeople regarding leathers.

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...-FORUM-lt-READ

    Good European hides are expensive. Many of my clients opt for them and realize they come with a higher price tag.

    South American hides are decent, but the cows are way more banged up than European ones due to bug bites and barbed wire.

    China has no cattle industry, btw. And the USA has virtually no tanneries due to OSHA / EPA requirements. So all leather sent to China for processing is from USA slaughterhouses. I find leather tanned in China to be extremely consistent and reliable, but not what you would call inspiring or artistic. There is no formaldehyde used in tanning, that's wood glue in plywood.

    Like the saying goes "you pays your money, you take your choice" You can have top quality OR you can work within a budget, but you can't really have both. A typical married cover H&M sofa may be $ 3,500 - and we can take that same frame and put a GR 4 / 5 German or fine Italian hide on it and it will be $ 5,500. You have to decide if that leather is worth another $ 2K when everything else remains the same.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    Thanks, Duane. So basically it sounds like even though Omnia uses European leathers and H&M uses Chinese tanneries, overall a piece of reclining furniture will be constructed with better quality through H&M. As you said, the leather is just part of the whole picture and it depends on one’s budget what they want to spend. Obviously, I don’t want a recliner with poorly made “innards” even if the cover IS top quality. At the same time, my goal is to have well-built reclining furniture with a decent piece of leather on the outside. By the way, does a company such as Omnia process their leather in Europe since they no longer do it in the USA? I’ll go read your link now. Also, are H&M’s Chinese processed leather painted? If so, does that paint wear off over time? I’ve seen that happening with brands like Flexsteel.
    I have no idea where this piece of dark green leather on my 27+ year old recliner was tanned, but there is absolutely no signs of wear and tear or fading, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    I would suggest you read through this entire thread, if you do them you will know more than 95% of all furniture store salespeople regarding leathers.

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...-FORUM-lt-READ

    Good European hides are expensive. Many of my clients opt for them and realize they come with a higher price tag.

    South American hides are decent, but the cows are way more banged up than European ones due to bug bites and barbed wire.

    China has no cattle industry, btw. And the USA has virtually no tanneries due to OSHA / EPA requirements. So all leather sent to China for processing is from USA slaughterhouses. I find leather tanned in China to be extremely consistent and reliable, but not what you would call inspiring or artistic. There is no formaldehyde used in tanning, that's wood glue in plywood.

    Like the saying goes "you pays your money, you take your choice" You can have top quality OR you can work within a budget, but you can't really have both. A typical married cover H&M sofa may be $ 3,500 - and we can take that same frame and put a GR 4 / 5 German or fine Italian hide on it and it will be $ 5,500. You have to decide if that leather is worth another $ 2K when everything else remains the same.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    Maybe by now you have read that thread and realize there are many assumptions in your questions that are not actually true. H&M does NOT use all hides from China. As Duane said you take your choice with H&M and can get hides from all over the world. They are from China, from Italy, from Brazil, from lots of places. They are painted, they are fully dyed, they are whatevery you want based on the leather YOU pick. There are no hides tanned in the US any more. I would also be very suprised if every hide in Omnia comes from the same place unless there simply are not that many choices. So you are making assumptions based on articles with inaccurate information. Where, by the way, did you get the information that Omnia does not use leather from China? I could not see that anywhere on their website and could not find anything about where each leather is sourced from, and they are NOT tanned in the US since there basically isn't any done here for any manufacturer. Even if they use European leathers ghat does not mean they don't also use Chinese leathers. H&M uses European leathers too. But not ALL of their leathers are from one place. I think honestly, as much as you WANT to believe it is the case, you are not going to get a well built sofa with a top quality European hide for 2000.00. So some of that information is clearly not accurate. How do I know? I did the same research about 2-3 years ago. An honest seller, which admittedly is hard to find at times, will find out for you where the leather you are considering sources from. If they say they can't, they know you won't like the answser. I honestly do not believe Omnia does not use any leathers from China. Their website does not say they source all leathers from Europe. They say "Over 30 years ago, they sourced fine quality 100% top grain hides, from some of the oldest tanneries in the world, and opened a fully integrated manufacturing facility in California. Since then, another generation has taken the helm and Omnia has grown leaps and bounds. It actually does not say anything about where they get their hides today. Just where they got them 30 years ago. If you click on each of thier leathers there is absolutley no information provided about individual leathers. SoI would contact them directly and ask them. You may or may not get a response.

    Omnia may be the perfect brand for you. But you will be getting a $2000.00 sofa, not a $3500.00 or $5500.00 sofa. Just go in with eyes wide open.
    Last edited by SueCT; 12-01-2021 at 06:51 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    Thanks for your reply, Sue. Everything you said makes sense. As for the how much we expect to pay for a power reclining sofa and reclining chair, we fully anticipate paying around $4,000 for the couch, give or take. And around $2,500 for the chair, also give or take. Heck, a local furniture store was selling Flexsteel and Leather Italia for more. I don’t mind paying bigger bucks for well made furniture from a reputable company, but not for low end stuff. And my husband said the $$$ doesn’t matter to him. That’s fine, but not for junk. And some of that means low quality foam in the cushions. I like firm HR foam.

    I’ve been busy today and haven’t had time to read through the the thread Duane posted. That will be for after dinner. I know I’ll get a better understanding of all the leathers and the tanning process. Thanks so much again for your thoughtful post. The biggest reason I’d go with Omnia is for the full foot rest.

    P.S. I just went to the thread link and it turns out I have read most of it previously. Lots of good information there! I think what it boils down to is hoping for some type of transparency from whomever is selling the recliners we like. Whether that happens probably depends who the dealer is.




    Quote Originally Posted by SueCT View Post
    Maybe by now you have read that thread and realize there are many assumptions in your questions that are not actually true. H&M does NOT use all hides from China. As Duane said you take your choice with H&M and can get hides from all over the world. They are from China, from Italy, from Brazil, from lots of places. They are painted, they are fully dyed, they are whatevery you want based on the leather YOU pick. There are no hides tanned in the US any more. I would also be very suprised if every hide in Omnia comes from the same place unless there simply are not that many choices. So you are making assumptions based on articles with inaccurate information. Where, by the way, did you get the information that Omnia does not use leather from China? I could not see that anywhere on their website and could not find anything about where each leather is sourced from, and they are NOT tanned in the US since there basically isn't any done here for any manufacturer. Even if they use European leathers ghat does not mean they don't also use Chinese leathers. H&M uses European leathers too. But not ALL of their leathers are from one place. I think honestly, as much as you WANT to believe it is the case, you are not going to get a well built sofa with a top quality European hide for 2000.00. So some of that information is clearly not accurate. How do I know? I did the same research about 2-3 years ago. An honest seller, which admittedly is hard to find at times, will find out for you where the leather you are considering sources from. If they say they can't, they know you won't like the answser. I honestly do not believe Omnia does not use any leathers from China. Their website does not say they source all leathers from Europe. They say "Over 30 years ago, they sourced fine quality 100% top grain hides, from some of the oldest tanneries in the world, and opened a fully integrated manufacturing facility in California. Since then, another generation has taken the helm and Omnia has grown leaps and bounds. It actually does not say anything about where they get their hides today. Just where they got them 30 years ago. If you click on each of thier leathers there is absolutley no information provided about individual leathers. SoI would contact them directly and ask them. You may or may not get a response.

    Omnia may be the perfect brand for you. But you will be getting a $2000.00 sofa, not a $3500.00 or $5500.00 sofa. Just go in with eyes wide open.
    Last edited by APairAndaSpare; 12-01-2021 at 10:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    I would probably buy the H&M and put a pillow under my knees. But you do you.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    All recliners - from any maker - are built around a mechanism. They are basically frames over mechs. The first question you want to ask is "Who is the maker of the recliner mechanism?" The two USA-made builders are either Leggett and Platt (plants in both the USA and China) OR Ultra-Mek. One rule I have in buying motion for my store is they must have one of those two mechanisms. Both are labeled on the metal, so if the salesperson cannot tell you, then you can open the piece up and find the label on the metal frame. If it's not one of those two makers, I would not buy it. Mechs are important, because when one breaks you want to be able to get a replacement (nearly impossible on imported mechs) and you also want them to last as long as possible.

    Frame rigidity and stiffness are easy to see. Push on the arms and wingbacks - how much does it flex?

    Tailoring you can see, its easy to tell.

    Cushions are harder. Unless you know the supplier that makes the foam (and 99.9% of all salespeople will not) then you don't know. Like any industry, there are bad ones, mediocre ones, and excellent ones. Ask what the replacement policy is on the cores. Hancock and Moore for example, will replace them free of charge as long as you own the piece, you just have to pay the shipping.

    FYI, I spoke with the recliner designer at H&M about the filled area footrest and he said they have tried it on several models over the years, but their clientele don't really like it as it has a more "puffed" appearance, they have not been good sellers. Currently they have only one recliner in the line with that feature and not likely to make any new pieces that way.

    http://www.hancockandmoore.com/Produ...SKU=7117-S-PRB
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: B-Y Married Leather program vs USA made brands

    Thanks. I think I found a good compromise. Omnia makes a Box Chaise footrest style. It gives the recliner a look of box cushions vs the waterfall “recliner” look. But it also has a full footrest rather than a split. Best of both worlds. None of that puffy area in front of the cushion screaming recliner. That sounds like it’s what we’re looking for. Have you heard of that, Duane? I sat on a sofa from another brand and looking at it you wouldn’t know it was a recliner or had the filled footrest.

    And even better, we found a small local store that can order these pieces. This business is NOTHING like the large furniture stores or chains whose sales people hover and try to push merchandise on you. They have a very good reputation and have been around for several years. I realize it’s not higher end like Hancock & Moore or B-Y. I also couldn’t find any models with the Box Chaise footrest feature on their websites.

    As it is, with the head tilt and powered foot rest and grade 3 full grain leather, plus a #35 foam (extra firm HR option) we’re still going to pay a pretty penny. But one thing I like is that this owner is very responsive and is maybe two miles from our house. He has the capability of coming to our home if something might need tweaking or looking at. Very personable and knowledgeable. And not pushy or “looking to make a sale”. In fact, he told me since I don’t have the ability to sit on the furniture I want to order, he said since he could use this model reclining sofa and recliner on his floor, he’s willing to give us the option of “Right of Refusal”. Once they come in, we can try them out. If we love them, they’re ours and we pay and they deliver. If we decide they’re not comfortable or whatever, he will then put them in his floor to sell. As long as we aren’t choosing pink polka dots for a cover, he said it should sell fairly quickly. We’ll choose a medium shade of brown. Full grain leather, analine plus. Best of both worlds. Not overly processed, dyed and not painted, but still somewhat protected leaving most of the natural grain.

    Anyway, I’m very impressed with him and his business. It’s going to take several months before it gets here, but that will give us something to look forward to. And I can stop obsessing about it. Lol.

    Description of leather I might be choosing. Still need to look at other samples.

    EUGENE
     Description: Eugene is a semi-aniline leather with a two-tone effect. Finished in Italy with state of the art technology and timeless craftsmanship, Eugene combines a soft, buttery hand with a gentle tipping effect that blends in with the two-tone underneath. Eugene is a remarkable achievement of fine leather making.
    Specifications:
    Raw Material: Hide Size: Thickness: Classification: Type Dyeing: Type Finish:
    Bovine Hides
    50 square feet (average) 1.1 – 1.3 mm
    Full Grain
    Aniline Plus
    “P” Two-Tone Effect

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    All recliners - from any maker - are built around a mechanism. They are basically frames over mechs. The first question you want to ask is "Who is the maker of the recliner mechanism?" The two USA-made builders are either Leggett and Platt (plants in both the USA and China) OR Ultra-Mek. One rule I have in buying motion for my store is they must have one of those two mechanisms. Both are labeled on the metal, so if the salesperson cannot tell you, then you can open the piece up and find the label on the metal frame. If it's not one of those two makers, I would not buy it. Mechs are important, because when one breaks you want to be able to get a replacement (nearly impossible on imported mechs) and you also want them to last as long as possible.

    Frame rigidity and stiffness are easy to see. Push on the arms and wingbacks - how much does it flex?

    Tailoring you can see, its easy to tell.

    Cushions are harder. Unless you know the supplier that makes the foam (and 99.9% of all salespeople will not) then you don't know. Like any industry, there are bad ones, mediocre ones, and excellent ones. Ask what the replacement policy is on the cores. Hancock and Moore for example, will replace them free of charge as long as you own the piece, you just have to pay the shipping.

    FYI, I spoke with the recliner designer at H&M about the filled area footrest and he said they have tried it on several models over the years, but their clientele don't really like it as it has a more "puffed" appearance, they have not been good sellers. Currently they have only one recliner in the line with that feature and not likely to make any new pieces that way.

    http://www.hancockandmoore.com/Produ...SKU=7117-S-PRB
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by APairAndaSpare; 12-04-2021 at 03:41 AM.

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