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Thread: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    Just unpacked today, two Hooker Furniture Corporation Palisade Nightstands to go with our Hancock and Moore Your Way Tufted Bed, and these were a 180 from the Hooker Saban Console that we were disappointed with. These nightstands featured all of the details that the console fell flat on - depth in the finish, dovetailing on the drawers, unique and thoughtful design, and even real cedar planks in the drawers.

    One of the coolest things about these nightstands? There's an electrical panel on the back of the pice with three outlets and a USB charger so you can hide those pesky cords from your lamps, alarm clocks, and cell phone chargers.

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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    These are MUCH nicer build quality as they are coming out of the Vietnam workshops, not India like the prior piece. Good value in these, selling for $ 899 in the store, they are solid, well-made, have a decent finish on them and while not at the Woodbridge or Jonathan Charles level, they are half the price of those makers. They are surprisingly heavy......

    This is the problem you have when companies such as Hooker, or Restoration Hardware, Pottery Barn, West Elm, etc. source from different factories to sell under their own name. The quality can have big swings in the line, and that's very difficult to control. I have seen some real junk in RH stores in upholstery - especially their button-tufted sofas - then go look a few feet away and see a very nice chair that is made for them by White-more Sherrill, designed by my friend Alan Price. Inconsistency in the offering quality.

    For example, one of the things great about McDonald's is the food tastes the same in California as it does in New York, or Florida. That means the customer knows his Big Mac he buys at home will taste the same as when he's on the other side of the country. McDonald's has that down pat. Hooker, not so much.
    Last edited by drcollie; 03-16-2022 at 12:05 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #13
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    Columbus, OH
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    I'll admit I was surprised when you started carrying Hooker. My experiences with the brand have not been good and I do not think it is good enough for your store. You can get Hooker at a dozen different places in every city. I understand the dilemma of 'stay up market and stay small or go downmarket to expand'. It is what every 'luxury' brand deals with and why like 25 years ago Godiva was good chocolate and now they sell it for $2 at Target. Going downmarket will expand your sales in the short term but it kills the brand in the long term. I just hope you stay in the up market space where we consumers can count on every item in your store is good quality and worth buying.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    There were two Century nightstands I really liked for either side of the Hancock and Moore bed, they were my first choice, however they were $ 2,600 apiece. I’m not sure my in-store customers would pay that, so it’s always a judgement call. Turning inventory is key in a retail brick and mortar store. If things sit too long then they become shopworn or get discontinued, then markdowns have to occur which destroys margins. Always have to be mindful of that on floor models.

    I have a very high quality Councill Dining Table in the store at $ 6,000 and a set of six Jessica Charles Dining chairs around it covered in Hancock and Moore leather at $ 1k apiece. A $12,000 set that has been on the floor eight years. That’s the killer….takes up space, inventory dollars and isn’t turning. One has to be careful to not become a showcase museum and keep price ranges in the affordable level.
    Last edited by drcollie; 03-17-2022 at 10:27 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #15
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    Jan 2022
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    Jacksonville, Florida
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    I do not envy your position Duane...very much like threading a needle but perhaps even more like trying to thread a needle head that is being moved in a room where the lights go off and on. I haven't been to the store yet, but from reading an embarrassingly large percentage of this blog...you biggest differentiating factor from the other dealers is your knowledge and ability to know quality when you see it AND COMMUNICATE IT. At the end of the day...the goal for a customer has to be obtaining a quality piece of furniture...whether that be from a company with the reputation of hooker or of H&M. Having items in your store that you can show to customers and point out the quality should win out over the brand association. The issue of inconsistency of a product line is the real challenge to overcome...not sure how you tackle that...can you contractually require that furniture you purchase is only made in a certain country?

    Perhaps I am naive about it...but I don't think people are labelling the brands of their furniture to show off...they want the craftsmanship to speak for itself...so even for a company previously unheard of, if you see quality that you respect...then that is what should go in the store.

    Cheers!

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    Yes, if you get educated on what makes a good piece, you don't need to see brand labels, your eyes and sense of touch will tell you. I am very wary of shopping new lines and product when I go to the High Point Furniture Market, and I really don't need anyone telling me much about their product, because usually the more they talk, the more I see they don't know what they are talking about! However, in our industry, my approach is the exception, not the rule. This is still a price-driven industry. Can you sell it for "X" dollars and can the manufacture make it for "Y" dollars? And it those line up, then does it look presentable and stylish? If so, your average retailer will buy it. I have a bad habit of getting into the specifics of pieces and tell the pitchman that this piece they made lacks this or that, or isn't made correctly and then watch their eyes glaze over and I realize I'm wasting my time and breath...lol.

    The ONLY way you can learn about quality builds in going into the workshops and talking to the people that make it. There is no other way. The workers are completely honest (which the sales team may not be!) and thrilled that someone cares about what they are doing. I ask questions like "Why do you do it this way?" or "How would you improve the build quality on this piece if you could?" Last time I was in the Hancock and Moore factory I struck up a conversation with one of the spring up guys, who does the 8-way hand-tied suspensions in the frames. He had no gloves on - I've never seen that before and asked him why? Everyone else has bloody hands from pulling the stings....so they wear gloves. He laughed and said "After 25 years doing this, I have callouses that nothing can penetrate" and reached out his hand to show me. I tried my hand on pulling a few strings - it's harder than it looks. Finally he said proudly "I make the best suspension in this whole town, you ever have one fail that I did you bring it back here to me and I'll fix it free of charge". I asked "How many failures have you had over the years?" and with a wink he said "Not the first one".

    This is why I encourage Sarah, my daughter, to go into the factories and take the time to do it. You don't really know, until you know. Not with imports, the are all in a box in a giant warehouse, so short of going to Pacific Rim countries, I have to look them over at Market to see how they are made. Not much beats benchmade American Furniture so I don't expect them to measure up to that, but if they can get there 80%, that's pretty good. Few customers will pay the price for handmade USA furniture, unfortunately.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #17
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    Aug 2021
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    9

    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    Yes, if you get educated on what makes a good piece, you don't need to see brand labels, your eyes and sense of touch will tell you. I am very wary of shopping new lines and product when I go to the High Point Furniture Market, and I really don't need anyone telling me much about their product, because usually the more they talk, the more I see they don't know what they are talking about! However, in our industry, my approach is the exception, not the rule. This is still a price-driven industry. Can you sell it for "X" dollars and can the manufacture make it for "Y" dollars? And it those line up, then does it look presentable and stylish? If so, your average retailer will buy it. I have a bad habit of getting into the specifics of pieces and tell the pitchman that this piece they made lacks this or that, or isn't made correctly and then watch their eyes glaze over and I realize I'm wasting my time and breath...lol.

    The ONLY way you can learn about quality builds in going into the workshops and talking to the people that make it. There is no other way. The workers are completely honest (which the sales team may not be!) and thrilled that someone cares about what they are doing. I ask questions like "Why do you do it this way?" or "How would you improve the build quality on this piece if you could?" Last time I was in the Hancock and Moore factory I struck up a conversation with one of the spring up guys, who does the 8-way hand-tied suspensions in the frames. He had no gloves on - I've never seen that before and asked him why? Everyone else has bloody hands from pulling the stings....so they wear gloves. He laughed and said "After 25 years doing this, I have callouses that nothing can penetrate" and reached out his hand to show me. I tried my hand on pulling a few strings - it's harder than it looks. Finally he said proudly "I make the best suspension in this whole town, you ever have one fail that I did you bring it back here to me and I'll fix it free of charge". I asked "How many failures have you had over the years?" and with a wink he said "Not the first one".

    This is why I encourage Sarah, my daughter, to go into the factories and take the time to do it. You don't really know, until you know. Not with imports, the are all in a box in a giant warehouse, so short of going to Pacific Rim countries, I have to look them over at Market to see how they are made. Not much beats benchmade American Furniture so I don't expect them to measure up to that, but if they can get there 80%, that's pretty good. Few customers will pay the price for handmade USA furniture, unfortunately.
    Hey Duane,

    I thoroughly enjoyed my factory tour at Hancock and Moore that you arranged for me in 2015. I would recommend it to anyone and what made it even more special, in hindsight, was spending an afternoon with Jimmy Moore, who has since retired. I'm sure the tours are still every bit as educational but having Jimmy as a guide was an exceptional experience. In how many industries could a consumer who showed up to pick up one office chair also get a guided tour from the founder and owner of the company? There are likely few other people in his situation that would do that and I understand my experience wasn't unusual; he did the tours for everyone who asked to come in and look around.

    You mention that it's not really possible to tour the Pacific Rim facilities but as it relates to Jonathan Charles, there is a guided tour on YouTube that the company's founder, Jonathan Sowter, gave to Tom Russell with Furniture Today. It lasts about an hour and he takes viewers all though their expansive facility. Although you aren't really there on the ground in Vietnam, it is very interesting in the same way Jimmy Moore's tour was. I felt I learned a lot watching it. He covers the foundry, photography, and even the box-making machine. Among the things that's interesting is that Mr. Sowter trained under Paul Maitland Smith to do reproductions of classic English antiques so he's well versed in inlays, veneering, carving, egg shells, hand-painting, etc. but he says the challenge of running a fine furniture operation today is to incorporate those traditional craftsman skills into looks that today's consumers will find appealing. Although perhaps they should, he alludes to the fact that the look of English antiques isn't one that so many of today's buyers appreciate.

    I can understand that because it isn't a look I appreciated at 25 either but now being double that age, I have come to prize classical designs that endure. It's interesting when watching an old TV show or movie that in some room scenes the furniture and decor are timeless while in others the look can be laughably dated. In some scenes there are classic leather wingback chairs, a chesterfield sofa, Chippendale table and Federal-style secretary desk. Those rooms could essentially be featured in this month's issue of Traditional Home even though it was filmed in 1972. The textiles might be different today but the furniture isn't. In other rooms though that were more current and "stylish" for the 1972 era, there is nothing to be kept. Unless one would want to live in a time warp, nothing would be salvageable for today. Therefore, to me, if a furniture buyer is interested in purchasing good, well-made items that will endure, I'd recommend you preface those purchases by retuning your taste towards the classics. What good is a piece of furniture made to last 100 + years and that you may be living with for 50 if it will be dated looking after only a few years.
    Last edited by Ci2Eye; 03-18-2022 at 11:28 PM.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    I sure do miss Jimmy Moore. He was an experience in and of itself - I don't think I've ever met anyone who has as much fun "working" as Jimmy did when giving a tour, especially to a first-timer, it was almost like stand-up comedy and you would leave there both laughing to yourself and scratching your head at the banter he used to engage in with his associates. Rick Fox, did the tours after that, he was the Plant Foreman, but he retired this past December so I'm not sure who is doing them at the moment. Jimmy loved that place, he didn't want to retire but felt he had to when Jack (his co-partner) left. One of my favorite Jimmy Moore stories was that when one of his employees wanted a new car, he would go down and do the negotiating for them on the price, because he knew everyone in Hickory the way John Dutton knows everyone in Montana (Yellowstone series). Jimmy would always get them a better deal on a new ride.

    I too, love the classics - however they don't sell well. At one time in the 80's and 90's that's all we had in the store. It can be tempting to carry what you like, and only high-quality. But that makes you a museum shop, and if no one is buying then you fail in your business. Many store did just that, and they are gone in the early 2000's. At the end of the day its a business and if your product is not moving and generating a cash flow, then you aren't listening to what your customers want. We have to mix up the styles a bit to get to that younger customer who doesn't want classics.

    Every day I hear "too expensive" and then my job is to tell them why it's worth it. I will always have a less expensive option, if for the sole purpose of using it as a prop to show the differences. Once people see those differences, they can decide what works best for them and their budget.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  9. #19

    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    This is a nice thread with a lot of good info about the differences in furniture quality. I was recently in the market for new bedroom furniture and knew I wanted solid wood. It was difficult to find good-quality bedroom furniture displayed in my area stores that had withstood the “abuse” of customer traffic and from being moved from display to display. This led me to the realization that I wanted solid wood pieces without veneers. I looked closely at Stickley and some Amish-made furniture lines, but the variety and options did not fit what I wanted. Much if it was huge, and the store models of the Stickley, in particular, had scratches and dented corners that showed a distressing thin coat of stain. In addition, most bedroom furniture these days includes upholstered headboards, and that is not my style. Other wood options were literally ginormous, and not at all to my taste. Out of desperation (and before I found this site) I reached out to a high-end, independent furniture store in a town about 150 miles away.

    The salesperson and I ended up working entirely through email and phone calls, and she introduced me to Durham Furniture, which is an employee-owned, solid-wood furniture company in Canada. I was impressed by the selection and styles available, and with its use of solid maple and cherry. I learned a lot by watching a few of their longer YouTube videos that showcase the build quality and the company’s style.

    I guess the point of this post is to point out that in addition to American companies that make high-quality furniture, there is at least one Canadian company that makes what I perceive as really good, solid-wood bedroom furniture and case goods.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

    There are several high-quality companies out there making good, durable furniture, the problem is people are so inundated with prices on cheap imports, when they see the cost of a properly made bed, done by real American craftsman, they recoil in horror at the price. Want to see the best bedmaker in the USA? Here's the link - I sleep on one of these beds every night and also have three more in guest bedrooms in my own home. These are true heirloom quality and will last for generations unless the house catches on fire and they burn up. At one time, I used to sell about thirty per year of their beds, nowadays my clients won't pay the price (a bed averages $ 5K to $ 12K depending on complexity and wood). The internet has changed the way people shop, and there are a lot of "experts" out there that don't know a chisel from a screwdriver, but they will tell you that product "X" is well made and priced right, and people believe it.

    Made in Tiverton, Rhode Island, one at a time. This is how you make a bed.

    https://scottjamesfurniture.com/all-beds

    Durham is solid wood, and I have looked at their line before. Being "Solid Wood" doesn't make them a premium builder in and of itself. They don't use a through-bolt mortise and tenon joinery like Scott James does, so over time they can loosen up and rattle - or even tear out if side stress is put on that hook method, but they are not priced like Plaud's beds, either. You can see the double hooks in this video when they put it together. I'm not a fan of these method of side rail attachment, they are prone to failure over time but this is a fairly common attachment method. Just not for me, the hooks rest over a pin, it works - but just barely. I have never carried hook beds in my store.

    https://youtu.be/WFMweT_aTYE

    This is how you want your rails to join. Unfortunately this video is over an hour long, but you can skip around it. A bed made this way will never break, fracture, rattle, or come apart. The headboard will be floating and as such no cracks or glue panel separation. This is craftsmanship and it cost money to make a bed like this. Lots of shop time!

    https://youtu.be/WLDChvpOrMs
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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