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Thread: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

  1. #1
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    Default Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    There is lots going on at Hancock & Moore these days, they are spending quite a bit on infrastructure to improve their facilities. They are re-opening Plant 2 and installing air conditioning in it. That's where the hardwood frames are made and they are also adding an upholstery line for more capacity in that building. That's good news! Severe high-grade Plywood shortages and costs have been the main reason for the hardwood frame plant to go back on-line. They have also done a lot of upgrading to workspaces for their employees - new lighting for the factories, automated cutters, created an engineering department and made offices for all their customer service staff. The end result is better working conditions for all, and making an improved product for customers.

    Price changes will be coming, looks like they will be going into effect around August 1st. That gives you a month to plan or make a purchase if so desired. This was not a simple "add a percentage" increase, they did a line-by-line study of every single item they make and re-calculated each piece. Some items will actually go down in price, others will remain the same, and other will go up. In particular, anything that is either 1) Tufted or 2) has Exposed Wood as part of the frame decor is going to have the most significant increases. As you may already know, the associates who can do tufting are the highest paid / most skilled workers in the plants and they have to pay them more to retain them, as other companies seek to lure them away. Exposed wood pieces will go up simply because solid wood materials costs are up in higher clear grade hardwoods.

    The Town and County Line will be re-vamped and re-priced September 1 as of now. You will see new leather from South America going into the program, replacing the ones that previously were sourced in China. H&M plans to gradually exit from Chinese leather suppliers, who have become not only expensive, but are pretty much universally despised by a large part of their client base.

    Order wait times are decreasing somewhat. Average time now is 20 to 24 weeks, down from 26 weeks. They are working hard to get things out the door. Some pieces will still take longer, be aware of that as well. If you have ever wanted a Hancock and Moore button-tufted sofa, now may be a good time to get that order going and save yourself some money.
    Duane Collie
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    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    We have a copy of the new pricing from Hancock and Moore effective August 1, 2022. Last day to order at existing prices will be Saturday July 30th. Note that there a few items decreasing in price. We will double check all new orders this month to make sure you are getting the best price.

    Town and Country and Your Way Promotions will change Sept 1st.

    There are leather drops and leather grade increases effective August 1 as well. As shown here. There may be some remaining hides on the dropped leathers.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by drcollie; 07-01-2022 at 12:30 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    I must have missed whatever is dropping in price. Every leather I see on the list is going up a grade, not one down.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    Some frames are dropping in price. For example a Sundance 4716 Sofa in GR 4 leather will be $ 190 less on the August 1 2020 price list than it is now. But overall, it appears to be a 3 to 5% increase if averaged out.

    Leather class revisions are primarily a function of fuel and transportation costs to move the hides from the tanneries to H&M.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    OK. Frame prices not in the previous post, but I guess maybe its possible it will be less in certain leathers that didn't increase in grade, but seems likely that 190.00 will be eaten up by increasing the grade of all those leathers which will likely add more than 190.00 to it. But I guess many people still seem to have unlimited funds to burn and keep paying the higher and higher prices, so they will keep going up and keep just pouring the extra money into the business until they see people holding back. They have 9 month waits and trouble finding enough workers but they are adding another line so I am just SMH. Once again as long as the orders keep pouring in, they can keep increasing prices and have wait times as long as they need to. It has been in the news lately CEOs at shareholder meetings saying they are "not leaving any price on the table" that they can keep increasing prices and profits because people just blame inflation rather than them and keep paying it. My sister was just quoted a 1 year wait from Stickley for a sofa, not a Stickley brand, not sure which brand they were looking at, but they ended up going elsewhere. So when you hear tapes of CEOs saying that stuff, it is hard to trust the lines you are being given about nonstop price increases every few months.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    Thank you for sharing this information.

    Do you see any significant new frames included in the updated T&C program? And did they add any new leathers to the Handle 1 and Handle 2 options for the updated T&C or your way programs?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    I haven't seen the new Town and Country Program, just in conversations know that they are revamping it and moving to South American leathers as base married covers and getting out of Chinese tanneries. It will be another month before I get a look at that revised Program.

    As for price increases in general, all businesses work on margins. They are going to add up the cost of making an item, add a percentage which in this industry is typically targeted to 12% to 15% net profit at the manufacture's level and that's how the price is determined. Below those levels, the business becomes unhealthy and will eventually fail. That's why companies that are on the ball pay particular attention to time/work studies and material costs, its very important not to guess (and many do guess). H&M has it down to a science how much yield is available from a particular hide for example, and its not uniform across all leathers. They have a laser hooked up to a computer than measures every hide and panel to be used in a build, its fascinating to watch. If a hide from a supplier has too much spoil, they simply drop it from the line. Freight costs are brutal. All businesses are getting hammered on freight costs and it comes back to the retail costs of goods as part of the expense. Employee costs are high. Drive around Hickory NC where all the furniture makers are and you see signs out front the say $ 5,000 signing bonus for trimmers, upholsterers and tufters. They have to up the pay to keep them. And on and on.

    They fight back though. Getting out of China is one way - not because its China - its because of tariffs still in place and the high cost of container ships from the Far East, plus unreliability of the work force due to Covid. South America is more stable and lower in price overall for value hides. Re-opening the frame plant was smart because they are not reliant on imported frames and birch plywood from Russia. Adding another upholstery line in that building is also smart because they KNOW that people don't want to wait 9 months for furniture, they have to get that delivery time down and orders keep rolling in. Taylor King for example, is mired down and can't get product out in less than 9 months, that is killing them because people won't wait that long. Our store has zero Taylor King sofas on the floor right now, we are sold out and won't get any display models until end of the year. You have to be able to deliver the goods in a timely manner- that's as critical as price.

    There will be those priced out of the Hancock and Moore market. Understandable. There are lesser priced lines out there - plenty of them. But at the end of the day they are all affected by the same increases in labor and materials. The only way to avoid those increases is to cheapen the build or hire a less skilled work force. Some companies do that, I'm sure.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    I am all about the South American Leathers!! But it is sad that many European ones are being dropped.

    I was curious about the handle changes because we like the color of the currently non-program Keenan Toffee. However, in the current pricing, the Handle 2 Tilton Lager is much less than the Keenan Toffee.

    We have never sat on a Keenan leather vs. Tilton leathers which we have sat on many times and liked very much. BUT if Keenan was to be included in the new T&C as a Handle 1 then we would consider taking that chance and ordering our couch and ottoman with that leather in mind.

    Is it risky to wait and see if Keenan is added to the new T&C program?

    In regards to the business practices and price changes...H&M's product is so much better than anything else I have been able to personally experience that I want them to do whatever they need to do to keep that level of quality. It has been written on this blog many times that comfort of any given piece is personal but that, on average, H&M is more likely to get a positive reaction than some of the other makers. I have yet to find an H&M piece that wasn't substantially more comfortable that other companies offerings. Even items that I wouldn't normally enjoy sitting in like a wing chair for instance...sat in a H&M wingchair recently just because I could and it was a lovely sit. If they lose these talented workers and the craftsmanship suffers...they aren't going to lower the prices...we will suffer with inferior products. So pay them and keep making it better than everyone else!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    Hides get dropped for a variety of reasons, the most common ones are:

    1) Slow selling
    2) Tannery discontinues a colorway
    3) Inconsistent product, too many batches outside the tolerances for color or yield
    4) Price creep beyond what is available from another tannery that is similar.
    5) Shipping issues and timeliness.

    I have no idea what the revised Town and Country Program will look like, they are still waiting for prices from Leather Vendors before they make final decisions, which is why its coming out a month later than the general price change August 1. I do know that ordering after that revision will almost certainly mean higher price points and you won' get your furniture until Spring 2023.

    Alex Shuford paid a lot of money for Hancock and Moore in 2017 and he's a very smart man. They chased Hancock and Moore for years with the Century brand but could never really catch them. So when the opportunity came to acquire them due to Jack and Jimmy retiring, he jumped at the chance. When you pay that much for a company, you don't mess with the formula, and he hasn't. It's trendy to say "They don't build them like they used to", but the truth of the matter is they have made capital investments that make the product better and control the pricing more effectively. When I first went to the factory decades ago, they were using cardboard templates to cut out the pieces, and all those hung on literally a dry cleaning store motorized line that Jimmy Moore bought for the factory in Plant 1. Press a button and stop it at the template you want as a Marker, then lay it out by hand and mark around the cardboard template with a grey washable crayon. Fast forward to 2022 and that system has been replaced by a computerized laser scanner that maps out every piece on a hide and grades it. Result? More yield from a hide, and less leather abnormalities in prime areas of the piece. The laser is more accurate and that means the sewers can assemble the pieces more accurately with less ripples in the closures. And that helps control costs + adds quality. I like the direction they are going, its smart and gives the consumer a more consistent product.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Price changes coming from Hancock & Moore Summer 2022

    Folks, if you ever wanted a button-tufted sofa from Hancock and Moore, I would suggest you consider ordering one before the Aug 1st price increase. I was advised that tufted pieces were going to go up, as they have to pay the people that do tufting a higher wage to keep them and that worker is in demand all over the North Carolina at every maker. Looking at one item for reference, they certainly are. This example:

    The # 8876-77 Chesterfield sofa in GR 4 (Capri) sold for $ 6,762 one year ago (July 21)

    Right now, July 2022 it sells for $ 7,000 (3.5% increase over 1 year period)

    On August 1, that same piece will be $ 8,564 (22 % increase from current pricing)

    That's drop ship pricing, freight not included in this example. Don't say you weren't warned if you miss out! I think we may be ordering a couple for stock before August 1.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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